176 replies to this topic

[Gresh]

Well I don't think this is balanced since a fencer has 0% chance of winning against a cleric/scout. But if you all think it is balanced ill just accept it. I'll just not participate in those things

[Moogle]

Balanced? Nothing in this game is balanced! I don't even consider this a game anymore, it is more of a sandbox for players to screw around in trying to feel special. I always see people flaming each other, boasting how strong they are, who has the best clan, who can beat who. In truth, nobody is strong, all of the variables which were meant to play key factors in battle are all maxed out, leaving virtually only random chance to determine who wins in a fight. And clans? Imagine if a group of kids were forming a football game, and 20 kids were picked for team A, but only 5 kids were picked for team B. One or two enormous clans in existence dominating the server does not make you strong, it makes you incredibly stupid for sucking all of the fun out of the game, thus excluding new players from the fun, and reducing the amount of new players who actually stay to a very tiny number. Of course, all of these problems could be fixed one step at a time until all is fair, but each and every adjustment that is made causes an apocalypse of players crying that their pretend strength has been nerfed is reverted, because players literally stop playing.

Players seem to be under the impression that comments and suggestions have evolved into some form of game decision democracy, as if the problems within this server could ever be solved by each player's biased little opinion being cast into a voting poll. That is precisely how the game became unbalanced in the first place, and is also precisely why it has not improved. So we are at a stalemate, nothing will improve until players allow us to make changes, which may or may never happen. But you can stop with the petty little threads, complaining about things such as movement speed in an isolated arena game. Such a tiny issue to address in the middle of a gigantic shit storm? Why should we concern ourselves with such things? Selectively bitching about things that you want fixed for your own personal reasons, and then quitting whenever something you dislike is fixed, why should we bother?

[Cloud]

FlashFire, on 13 January 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Well I don't think this is balanced since a fencer has 0% chance of winning against a cleric/scout. But if you all think it is balanced ill just accept it. I'll just not participate in those things

there r fencers won the solo tour , please check the history

[iansky]

Moogle, on 14 January 2014 - 12:36 AM, said:

Balanced? Nothing in this game is balanced! I don't even consider this a game anymore, it is more of a sandbox for players to screw around in trying to feel special. I always see people flaming each other, boasting how strong they are, who has the best clan, who can beat who. In truth, nobody is strong, all of the variables which were meant to play key factors in battle are all maxed out, leaving virtually only random chance to determine who wins in a fight. And clans? Imagine if a group of kids were forming a football game, and 20 kids were picked for team A, but only 5 kids were picked for team B. One or two enormous clans in existence dominating the server does not make you strong, it makes you incredibly stupid for sucking all of the fun out of the game, thus excluding new players from the fun, and reducing the amount of new players who actually stay to a very tiny number. Of course, all of these problems could be fixed one step at a time until all is fair, but each and every adjustment that is made causes an apocalypse of players crying that their pretend strength has been nerfed is reverted, because players literally stop playing.

Players seem to be under the impression that comments and suggestions have evolved into some form of game decision democracy, as if the problems within this server could ever be solved by each player's biased little opinion being cast into a voting poll. That is precisely how the game became unbalanced in the first place, and is also precisely why it has not improved. So we are at a stalemate, nothing will improve until players allow us to make changes, which may or may never happen. But you can stop with the petty little threads, complaining about things such as movement speed in an isolated arena game. Such a tiny issue to address in the middle of a gigantic shit storm? Why should we concern ourselves with such things? Selectively bitching about things that you want fixed for your own personal reasons, and then quitting whenever something you dislike is fixed, why should we bother?

nice point sir! i guess if all players understand what this statement is all about, i think this could change the whole game-play into a much more balanced state. i mean let the gm do the changes and please suggest things that are beneficial to all players and for the server. i read about that simple self buff issue and movement speed thing and it was funny for me to see it, you see the real build of a player can only be seen without any cleric buff, i mean for me the game is really overpowered in many ways, from gems to gears. the point now is cleric buff is balanced in this type of events, maybe nerfed abit but thats how to balance it by the gm, and they did a good job about it. so if you happen to miss an attack to someone or cant even stun or kill with your self buff then i guess your build should be reassessed when you want to join this events. the true strength and build i think can be seen without having any buff and just merely using your self buff.

[Williams]

I actualy pretty much like how buffs are nerfed in the GA and i think its fair.. but my point is how could i loose w/o even getting near my enemy and not only me.. many players got the same problem. whats the fun of this "pvp" when u cant even touch ur enemy(i dont mean low hr or ap, I mean not able to catch them). its like trying to catch an F1 car only by running please gm's make a knight (normal type) ofc with donates and tell me if u win vs scout or a mage i would like to see how u gonna react on that, because I dont complain at thing that should be made for my own use.

[Gresh]

To be honest I don't see any reason to play this game anymore. Moogle is right, I got better things to do Lol! I wish I figured that out a few years ago..

[iansky]

FlashFire, on 14 January 2014 - 05:25 AM, said:

To be honest I don't see any reason to play this game anymore. Moogle is right, I got better things to do Lol! I wish I figured that out a few years ago..

maybe re-evaluating the game may help improve the server, its kinda overpowered though yeah its a private server but its not that fun anymore. its like, we reached the point where the imbalances are hard to solve because everything is spoon-feed to the players already thats why everyone wants to be the best just for their job and not for everyone's sake.

[Moogle]

It can be fixed easily by making decisions which reinstate balance and some form of gameplay, and standing by our decisions no matter what. Some people would not like it and leave, but we could just consider that a purge of those who would not be missed.

[Gresh]

I think AP raider caused this. Since they nerfed katar, raider is even stronger with dualswords. This isn't balanced anymore bit yea back on topic; a smaller game arena would be nice for pvp solo and pvp soulmate.

[Dan]

williams, i won using a fencer, some have too (mastercrime, useme). The thing is you just have to be creative and imaginative. We use speed sets against runners, use int against stunners. Not much of a problem right? Also, if you bitch around other classes doing this, doing that, why not create that character for 1v1 event? me, i have all the job classes except that of the dealer class, and that makes a player versatile.

[Cloud]

danerika, on 14 January 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:

williams, i won using a fencer, some have too (mastercrime, useme). The thing is you just have to be creative and imaginative. We use speed sets against runners, use int against stunners. Not much of a problem right? Also, if you bitch around other classes doing this, doing that, why not create that character for 1v1 event? me, i have all the job classes except that of the dealer class, and that makes a player versatile.

that's what I want to hear in my own opinion~

some ppl dont like to think and solve the difficulty u r facing

runner? why not just prepare a speed set for switching to catch them

dodger? come on , full hr set hit everything already

dr is strong? so get a full dr set

dmg is too low? so get a full ap set

cleric is too stronger in solo 1vs1 solo tour? why no just create a battle cleric?

simple words

more things u prepared , bigger chance to win

Edited by Cloud, 14 January 2014 - 04:58 PM.

[Reliable]

iansky, on 14 January 2014 - 01:25 AM, said:

nice point sir! i guess if all players understand what this statement is all about, i think this could change the whole game-play into a much more balanced state. i mean let the gm do the changes and please suggest things that are beneficial to all players and for the server. i read about that simple self buff issue and movement speed thing and it was funny for me to see it, you see the real build of a player can only be seen without any cleric buff, i mean for me the game is really overpowered in many ways, from gems to gears. the point now is cleric buff is balanced in this type of events, maybe nerfed abit but thats how to balance it by the gm, and they did a good job about it. so if you happen to miss an attack to someone or cant even stun or kill with your self buff then i guess your build should be reassessed when you want to join this events. the true strength and build i think can be seen without having any buff and just merely using your self buff.

Oh
My
GOD!

Dude, you were 'that one guy' that kept making post about how weak the Hunter class is and how badly you wanted the devs to change it.
You made a new thread every week and even started crying in threads related to other jobs..
Come on dude! Stop licking people's ass like if they have honey ducktaped to their butts..

Like you said: " let the GM's do their work"

Peace

[Williams]

danerika, on 14 January 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:

williams, i won using a fencer, some have too (mastercrime, useme). The thing is you just have to be creative and imaginative. We use speed sets against runners, use int against stunners. Not much of a problem right? Also, if you bitch around other classes doing this, doing that, why not create that character for 1v1 event? me, i have all the job classes except that of the dealer class, and that makes a player versatile.

i got ur point and u are right and in the same time wrong.. this must be discussed im going to school so when im back we will discuss this.

[Kir]

True indeed that the players have suggested to adjust the things that they consider as a disadvantage to their character/s. They don't know how to balance the PROS and CONS of a certain suggestion, instead they will be mad at you for not agreeing to what they posted

Instead of arguing let us make our server a more balanced by reporting bugs and suggest things that will be useful to all players.

[Kyros]

Dual swords have already hade one adjustment in which now all the premium dual swords are the same, dual swords are still being overlooked if any adjustment has to be made.
And perhaps iRosePH has to get a server wide balance like Moogle suggested to make the gameplay more exciting.

[charas]

Moogle, on 14 January 2014 - 12:36 AM, said:

Balanced? Nothing in this game is balanced! I don't even consider this a game anymore, it is more of a sandbox for players to screw around in trying to feel special. I always see people flaming each other, boasting how strong they are, who has the best clan, who can beat who. In truth, nobody is strong, all of the variables which were meant to play key factors in battle are all maxed out, leaving virtually only random chance to determine who wins in a fight. And clans? Imagine if a group of kids were forming a football game, and 20 kids were picked for team A, but only 5 kids were picked for team B. One or two enormous clans in existence dominating the server does not make you strong, it makes you incredibly stupid for sucking all of the fun out of the game, thus excluding new players from the fun, and reducing the amount of new players who actually stay to a very tiny number. Of course, all of these problems could be fixed one step at a time until all is fair, but each and every adjustment that is made causes an apocalypse of players crying that their pretend strength has been nerfed is reverted, because players literally stop playing.

Players seem to be under the impression that comments and suggestions have evolved into some form of game decision democracy, as if the problems within this server could ever be solved by each player's biased little opinion being cast into a voting poll. That is precisely how the game became unbalanced in the first place, and is also precisely why it has not improved. So we are at a stalemate, nothing will improve until players allow us to make changes, which may or may never happen. But you can stop with the petty little threads, complaining about things such as movement speed in an isolated arena game. Such a tiny issue to address in the middle of a gigantic shit storm? Why should we concern ourselves with such things? Selectively bitching about things that you want fixed for your own personal reasons, and then quitting whenever something you dislike is fixed, why should we bother?

What you say about this version of the game is true, what you say about the attitude of most players and big clans is also indeed true, but your tone and your arrogance are something that I probably never saw in any other servers or on any other games since i play mmos, and we are talking about a good 15 years.
There is no such thing as a "tiny issue" or "petty little threads". It s all feedback that u should indeed compil and take into consideration. It s incredible to see someone, part of the so called staff saying things like " Why should we concern ourselves with such things?". You are most probably unhappy with the player s behaviour, and oh god i can understand you. but ... making a post like yours disregarding your players opinion like if nothing coming from them could ever have any value.... really? like..... really?
Never forget that you got players on your server that have way more experience than you with games, especially mmos, or even ROSE, I know players here that played ROSE since beta phase (including me). I dont know you, but i highly doubt any admin in here are playing this game for so long. I see that you are indeed a developer, but do you think it makes your opinion more valuable than some of your players who could have 10years++ experience with many different mmos?
I completly agree that the movement speed being a problem in a few fights can be considered as a "mini" issue. It s a problem directly related to the amount of raw stats you can stack on this server and the way those stats are scaling... and guess what? this is not a mini issue. Dont get me wrong, balance wise it is normal for scouts to run and faster than others, in any mmos archer are a kiting class...well on the server you made scout be a kiting class with max dming skills and 50% stuns able to use 5 gems and to reach an enormous amount of dext and hit while still keeping their acc up... this might be indeed unbalanced.

I can understand how beautifull it sounds to be able to rebalance everything, I would be one to embrace this with a big smile. But the truth is that 90% of your player base play the game for what it is right now, a few big shtty clans thinking they are awesome, a few classes completly unbalanced that everyone is playing, absolutly meaningless rgn deciding the issue of every fight, and a game dominated by wich type of donate you bought with your money. If you were to really and honestly rebalance this game, and it would take way way more than a lil damage ajustment on a weapon that wasn`t much of a priority anyway, you are better with letting this server with the class and stat ratios it has, and open a new server to start fresh, wich i guess, will never happen.

[Empo92]

This sure is an intresting thread with many good points. But when you speak of balancing the game and the classes it makes me sick. All complaints about balancing scouts movement-speed, fencers factotum, raiders attackpower and I dont know what. I mean C'MON, ever heard of pros and cons? Every character has it, they got their speciality and their weaknessess, and thats what you refer to as unbalanced. Instead of complaints, try to be creative and use some of your common sense to build a counter weapon for it for god sake. Without these small specialities of each class/character this game would be terribly boring. You can just aswell be as retarded and remove all classes, make just one class to choose from and having just one set to choose from, yay that would be fun. What I am trying to say is, stop complaining in small details, moogle are completly right. If we for example nerf the dual swords for raiders the people who uses the raider will get mad, and the people who dislike the current situtation regarding raiders will get happy. Try think of something widely instead that really affect all classes, like for example, devide the statpoints with two or remove the ability to place grade 7 gems in the set and stick with just sockets, weapon, (shield for some).

Speaking more in a clan related way. Two big clans all together with their subclans that is able to build one clan with 50 members online at the same time and then recall this as beeing a strong clan? Gimme a break. First of all CW is stupid, 50v50 unskilled shitbricks running in a totally undiciplined way into a large battle where 80% of them die due to lagg and then you call this being strong, laughable. I've noticed this before, I've encounted this so many times before but I still dont get it how the players doesnt realize one thing. Quality before quantity, I have so many memories of times in tg where me and friends have won battles 3v5, 4v8 and even 5v10. the next round our enemies have called 3-5 more cuz they basically couldnt handle us and then rape us with 3 times more in numbers. And after that they have the guts to call us noobs or weak? I mean really?! Use the brain you got assigned, is it more to be proud of when you win even tho you are totally outnumbered, OR if you outnumber your opponent. Peace out.

[Moogle]

charas, on 15 January 2014 - 06:33 AM, said:

What you say about this version of the game is true, what you say about the attitude of most players and big clans is also indeed true, but your tone and your arrogance are something that I probably never saw in any other servers or on any other games since i play mmos, and we are talking about a good 15 years.
There is no such thing as a "tiny issue" or "petty little threads". It s all feedback that u should indeed compil and take into consideration. It s incredible to see someone, part of the so called staff saying things like " Why should we concern ourselves with such things?". You are most probably unhappy with the player s behaviour, and oh god i can understand you. but ... making a post like yours disregarding your players opinion like if nothing coming from them could ever have any value.... really? like..... really?
Never forget that you got players on your server that have way more experience than you with games, especially mmos, or even ROSE, I know players here that played ROSE since beta phase (including me). I dont know you, but i highly doubt any admin in here are playing this game for so long. I see that you are indeed a developer, but do you think it makes your opinion more valuable than some of your players who could have 10years++ experience with many different mmos?
I completly agree that the movement speed being a problem in a few fights can be considered as a "mini" issue. It s a problem directly related to the amount of raw stats you can stack on this server and the way those stats are scaling... and guess what? this is not a mini issue. Dont get me wrong, balance wise it is normal for scouts to run and faster than others, in any mmos archer are a kiting class...well on the server you made scout be a kiting class with max dming skills and 50% stuns able to use 5 gems and to reach an enormous amount of dext and hit while still keeping their acc up... this might be indeed unbalanced.

I can understand how beautifull it sounds to be able to rebalance everything, I would be one to embrace this with a big smile. But the truth is that 90% of your player base play the game for what it is right now, a few big shtty clans thinking they are awesome, a few classes completly unbalanced that everyone is playing, absolutly meaningless rgn deciding the issue of every fight, and a game dominated by wich type of donate you bought with your money. If you were to really and honestly rebalance this game, and it would take way way more than a lil damage ajustment on a weapon that wasn`t much of a priority anyway, you are better with letting this server with the class and stat ratios it has, and open a new server to start fresh, wich i guess, will never happen.

For one who comments on another's arrogance, you sure do sound fairly proud of your rose online experience. You are also very assumptive of my experience with rose online, considering that I have played through the overpopulated irose, through the days of p2p narose, and then through the f2p era. Switching back to irose once again for ruff-rose, and playing up until the day it shut down. Then came my first days of development, knowing nothing, learning only from those who reverse engineered the game to create the private server development method. Finally, I obtained what is basically the entire development history of rose online, every tiny last resource. Amongst everyone who had obtained access to gravity's svn, I am still the only person who ever bothered to translate their documentation, but no, I'm sure that you know much more about this game than I do.

Quite possibly even more absurd than the above, is that you assume that I must take on some professional condescending staff tone because I am a developer here. If iRosePh were an official server, I might, but this is a private server, a hobby, in which our hard work is put forth for generally nothing more than something to pass the time. The team here puts forth more effort into this project than any other that I have worked with. Tintin alone has done more by himself than three programmers have done elsewhere, but each and every thing that is released is followed mostly by petty complaints.

Lastly, you are wrong, there are such a thing as small, insignificant issues. They are the issues that on an official server, would receive no response, and allow players to bicker over them by themselves, but since we have reached a stand still here, I use them as opprotunities to point out that there is a bigger picture to take into consideration here. Players must be made aware that in the current state of the game, we can do nothing other than release nice holiday events and games, because larger projects such as new planets have no point. With the resources that we have, we could accomplish things that the official server has failed to produce, but as you have said, outside of a fresh start it is likely this will never happen. So I suppose that we will continue to sit here twiddling our thumbs until players become bored enough to accept the changes which need to be made in order to move on.

[Sephyroth]

Why blaming the players for this server MOOGLE ? U maded the server like this together with the other staff ! We just find out the bugs U maded in this server to get some more power. Anyways i thought GA set couldnt get an slot.

[Moogle]

I am not blaming the players for the way that the server is, I am simply pointing out that many are preventing us from fixing it.